Report 158
Report #158 Skillset: Necromancy Skill: Shrivel Org: Nihilists Status: Completed Mar 2009 Furies' Decision: We will change the following - sacrifice will only be doable by the crucifier. Shrivel will be 0p only if it is your crucifix. Problem: Sacrifice is one of the most costly instakills within the game and is the bread and butter of a Necromancer's offense. However, given its power cost with the necessary buildups that are required, contagion, ectoplasm, deathmark, crucify, two shrivels, and sacrifice (given that none are cured or failed, deathmark doesn't drop, contagion doesn't fall) will cost you 17p without scourge which is deemed a must (making it 27p). Should you ectoplasm, crucify, and use shrivel twice, you are left with no power and will need to recover 3p in order to sacrifice (16-24 seconds given a lucky tick and not even possible for a non-trans discipline user).Shrivel will also still cost power and equilibrium when all limbs are broken causing the Nihilist to waste valuable time and more power in such a delicate kill method. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Cause shrivel to cost no power on a given crucified target. This will make the cost of ectoplasm+crucify cost 8p and still require the Necromancer to regen 1 (2 if the ectoplasm is cured the first time as it usually is) to still get the sacrifice. Also cause a target with fully broken limbs to generate a new message to the Necromancer with a reduced cost of eq and power on shrivel to let them know they are ready to be sacrificed. Shrivel will still cost power if the target is not crucified. Player Comments: ---on 3/6 @ 08:09 writes: If building up to sacrifice requires so much work, it shouldn't be much of a stretch to deathmark sense or whatever (the one that diagnoses your target) in order to figure out whether they've got the required broken limbs or not. I'm still deciding on the first part. Also isn't single ecto free? ---on 3/6 @ 08:09 writes: Wait nvm, single is 1p apparently, my bad ---on 3/7 @ 01:16 writes: 'Also cause a target with fully broken limbs to generate a new message to the Necromancer with a reduced cost of eq and power on shrivel to let them know they are ready to be sacrificed.' Doesn't DeathMark already show the diagnosis of the target with the mark? If so, I don't see the point of adding this mechanic in, unless I'm missing something. ---on 3/7 @ 02:53 writes: Having shrivel cost no power at all would be excessive, but it's likely fair for it to not use power if the target has 4 broken limbs with a slightly reduced (but not eliminated) equilibrium cost. ---on 3/7 @ 11:35 writes: I agree with Nydekion ---on 3/9 @ 02:34 writes: Same as Nydekion and Shuyin. Crucify certainly doesn't need any upgrades, particularly since you're counting the power cost of things like contagion and ignoring the fact the cross breaks limbs by itself and you can just keep them up there in your analysis, but not punishing mistakes like that with a power cost is ok. Although absolve and toadcurse should get similar treatment in that case. ---on 3/13 @ 20:43 writes: Deathmark fades over time, even at full mark (15 marks), it will drop after 5 minutes in a fight so if the fight is drawn on, you could lose it entirely. Also, the format of such is like a diagnose, so you have a messy, four line thing to scan for in a mess of other text and afflictions. Even if that is not the case, we are still talking an instakill that costs at minimum 14p (not counting contagion there but just ectoplasm, deathmark, crucify, shrivel, shrivel) and needs at least scourge and contagion to be truly counted on which is another 13p. Given the need for timing on this kill, waiting on power regen on top of eq regains or hindering you may face is just beyond reasonable for a kill that is so focused for the class. Removing the power cost on shrivel will go a long way to balancing this out. ---on 3/14 @ 04:03 writes: First of all, diagnose output being hard to read is not a good argument in a world where virtually everyone has a trigger system. With deathmark being available there's little reason to have a lower equilibrium cost for waste shrivel, especially when almost all skills have a similar penalty for such waste. ---on 3/14 @ 04:18 writes: That said, I think sacrifice gets a bad reputation for the situations where it can be pulled off with blinding speed in group combat, most particularly following a tumble with two or more necromancers in the room. However, it's a whole different story 1v1 where you simply don't have nearly the affliction firepower to pull it off in the same thoughtless manner you see it in group combat. You instead rely on careful planning, precise timing, lengthy preparation, and when all is said and done a wide range of luck based factors. And this is where shrivel comes in; even after you managed to go through the whole setup in spite of hindrance (because there are indeed small windows of opportunity where a single, careful web will ruin the damn thing and make the Nihilist have to re-scourge for 10p, leaving you safe for at least 80 seconds or more depending on what power level the Nihilist was at when he was foiled), you can be left with literally 20 seconds or more (depending on how much power you used pre-crucify) before you have the power back to claim your kill, and every round of scabies/epilepsy is a chance for your luck to fail you. ---on 3/14 @ 04:26 writes: What I'm saying is, the sacrifice you see in group combat that makes you want to punch your computer isn't the same sacrifice you see 1v1, and the 1v1 sacrifice is the one for which the shrivel buff is needed. I actually tried to get a similar buff through on the Necromancy report, but it was rejected because of concerns that it would be too strong of hindering in non-sacrifice situations (such as with quickening). I'm happy to see that Romero has found a solution for that by requiring the target to be crucified for shrivel to be 0 power. Now you might ask, "Even if this is needed for 1v1, so what? It's not like we can rule out group combat." However, I am pretty confident that this change will have very little impact on the notorious team sacrifice, because when you're sacrificing with a partner or team, power is almost never an issue since you divide the cost between the participants anyway. ---on 3/14 @ 04:28 writes: In case it wasn't clear in that mess, I support shrivel being 0p on a crucified target, but it should still have the full eq cost if it's a wasted shrivel. ---on 3/18 @ 18:12 writes: An alternative to address group issues would be to have sacrifice only be possible on the person who initiated the crucify. This should alleviate some concerns in a group while still addressing the change. Though, this is only if a change to a shrivel is deemed necessary at all. ---on 3/19 @ 19:05 writes: Since Nydekion mentioned it, I also support sacrifice only working on people you personally crucified, minor change but every little bit helps ---on 3/26 @ 06:49 writes: Likewise, I would not have any problem with a change to make Sacrifice only doable on a target crucified by the same Necromancer attempting the Sacrifice as well. ---on 3/29 @ 02:51 writes: Doesn't sacrifice already have that quality? I thought it did. Not much use.